"Natural ordered" (aka orderByConsumed) is also an order and NOT random. I the past - before the "as MATERIALIZED" for the WITH clause was introduced - there was an issue where I had to add "limit 8e9" to solve my issue, which I cannot remember exactly now what it was. Might also not well be related to this thread here but just to mention as a hint about other effects out from the CTE into the framing query. My query: ~~~ with tab as ( select * from ViewAllAlarms limit 8e9 ), alarms as ( select rowid,TimeStamp,Seconds,Severity,Reason,Source,RestMsg,Message2,Message3 from tab where (State isNull) and (TestEnd isNull) and (Control isNull) ), aggregated as ( select Severity,Reason,Source,RestMsg,Message2,Message3,count(*)NumCount from alarms where Severity notNull group by Severity,Reason,Source,RestMsg,Message2,Message3 having NumCount>1 order by Severity,NumCount desc,Reason,Source,RestMsg,Message2,Message3 ) select * from aggregated; ~~~